In this conversation clip, Rev. Dr. Kutter Callaway, professor and Brehm Chair of Worship, Theology, and the Arts at Fuller Seminary, joins me to talk about his podcast "Be Afraid", a new series exploring the crossroads of horror films, psychology, and faith.

For Kutter, the fascination with fear is about understanding what our fears reveal about who we are and what we worship. From the biblical command “Do not fear” to the proverb “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,” this clip unpacks how fear, rightly directed, can actually deepen our spiritual lives.

I love how with curiosity and humor, Kutter invites us to consider that horror movies, often dismissed as pure entertainment, can instead be theological laboratories, revealing how we confront evil, mortality, AND grace.

TRANSCRIPT

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Okay, so Kutter, you have this "Be Afraid" podcast. It is about horror films. How is this Christian, and what in the world?

Rev. Dr. Kutter Callaway
Well, it is Christian because we're all driven by fear.

So it's human. And then, biblically, you see all sorts of conversations about fear, right? And why we should fear, why we shouldn't fear, what we should fear, who should—you know—so forth, and so on.

And it really started because I see myself as an expert in media and television and film. But personally, I've never been able to do horror. Like, I just—I'm like, ah—and so, I know, it just messes me up. And so I go, well, what's up with all those people that seem to be able to—they love it or whatever?

I'm like, that's weird. But then also, post-COVID, the box office returns on horror, in particular—some say that horror actually saved theaters because of a handful of specific movies that came out post-COVID. And they were successful. Then you got some Top Guns and Oppenheimers and stuff like that, but before then it was some of these lower-budget horror films. And so I'm like, okay.

And then it started taking up a much bigger chunk of the box office. I'm like, as an anthropologist, as a researcher, I can't ignore this. So I go, all right...

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
—and you live in Pasadena, for goodness’ sakes.

Rev. Dr. Kutter Callaway
Exactly. So I'm right here in the middle of Hollywood, right? And then actually, it happens that a number of the specific contacts I have that are in the entertainment industry—they were making horror films. And I'm like, okay. So that said, okay, I got to do something with it, and it was really just my attempt to go, I'm going to do a—you know, like an anthropologist—I’m going to go in and see what this is all about. So I started a deep dive into it.

I thought—and this is the answer to the question of the Christian—I thought what I would come out of it with was something like I had in my mind, the verse: “Perfect love casts out fear,” right? That there’s something about, theologically, that we are supposed to not be afraid, right? You have the “Do not fear.”

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I was like, wait a second—hands on hips—exactly.

Rev. Dr. Kutter Callaway
So why is it called “Be Afraid,” right? And so I realized at some point that yes, that’s true. There are all sorts of commands of “don’t fear,” you know—“God is with you,” et cetera. But then I realized there’s also “The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord.”

And I was like, well, wait a minute—maybe it’s not fear that’s necessarily the problem; maybe it’s what we’re fearing. And so a big part, I think, of what the thing is—and this gets with the psychology of it, et cetera—with horror, of going, sometimes what? And again, there’s some rubbish horror. It’s not like all horror.

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Sure, sure—not all created equal.

Rev. Dr. Kutter Callaway
Exactly. But the best of it actually gives us a space to—in a safe space—work through the traumas and the fears and the anxieties and stuff that we actually bring into the theater. But then it also redirects us to go, like, well, wait a minute—we’re being told to be afraid of the wrong thing.

You should be afraid of the murderous immigrants that are coming into the world, and you need to do—you know, why are you afraid of them? Well, because—well, okay—because you should be afraid. Yeah, because you should be afraid of this, you should be afraid of that, you should be.

And it’s like, well, wait a minute—maybe we should fear, you know, it’s back to “Don’t fear the one who can kill the flesh, but the one…” you know? It’s like, well, that’s not actually talking about Satan, even though some of you—it’s actually talking about God.

And so, the question—the project—is of how it’s Christian. Could these films be a way—or media, not just films, television, et cetera—be a way of steering us? And can we look at our consumption of it as a way of discipling and steering us, our fears, and in the right direction—to where, I’m talking with my hands, to where our fears are actually oriented toward God as opposed to all these other things that are sort of ginned-up fears that lead us to anxiety, that lead us to animosity against our neighbor, et cetera.

REFLECTION

By connecting horror films to an exploration of faith, Callaway opens a fascinating window into how theology meets culture. In horror films, the very act of being afraid can mirror our deeper spiritual journey, forcing us to confront what we run from and where we place our hope.

For preachers, teachers, and thoughtful listeners, Kutter’s conversation invites us to look for God’s truth not only in Scripture but in culture, art, and the spaces that make us most uncomfortable.

• So, what fears dominate your thoughts—and what might they reveal about your faith?
• How can you practice redirecting fear into reverence and trust in God?
• Where in your life might God be transforming fear into wisdom?